Fordi kristendommen ikke er en lovreligion, man har gennem hele historien blandet tro med romerret og med græske ideer.

Islam er en total ideologi “din wa dawla” hvis jeg husker rigtigt, dvs tro OG stat, – altid i ét.

Hvis man tror på moselovene så er der naturligvis ikke tale om noget der ligner menneskerettigheder, MEN ingen KAN jo dyrke dem som de står, så skulle man dræbe sin nabo hver søndag

Hvis man nu er ekstrem kristen, kan biblen så også tolkes så den er i direkte modstrid med demokrati og menneskerettigheder og hvis den kan hvorfor er der så kun så få der gør det?

Der skal ikke meget til at overbevise dig

Ham Miller kommer jo med det sædvanlige pjat, fx denneher:

He was so impressed with the Qur’an’s description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of “a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds” (Surah Nur, 24:40) was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago.

Tænk at Allah kunne finde på at skrive “a wave, over i a wave, over it clouds”

Klart at Muhammed aldrig havde set vand på sine rejser nordpå og vestpå og selvfølgelig kunne han heller ikke vide at der var skyer over vandet ;:-)

Man kunne heller ikke forestille sig at han kunne huske noget som helst nogen havde fortalt ham, – selv om han ikke selv skulle have været ved havet?

Hvis jeg skriver en Koran og nævner fx Jakarta og skriver “høje huse, hus ved hus, og myriader af mennesker på gaden” – og jeg har ikke været i byen, så er det “bevis” på at jeg er guddommelig?
Der skal ikke meget til at overbevise en som allerede tro at vide.

Noget helt andet er jo, – a propos – at islamforskeren Cook og hendes medforsker, jo mente at Mekka nok havde ligget et helt andet sted oppe nordpå, netop fordi der er henvisninger til havet, OG et vers nævner “stedet I passerer hver dag”, og det drejer sig om et sted i Syrien, – derudover hævder hun at Quraish betyder “haj” eller i det mindste “fisk”.
Bederetningerne passer også bedre med et andet “Makka”, som der er nogle stykker af oppe nordpå.
Jeg ved ikke om hun helt har droppet hypotesen igen.

Har man iøvrigt fundet de talende myrer man kan læse om i Koranen, – og taler de arabisk eller hebraisk?

Husk du har lov til at bære en talisman med Koranvers for at afværge bid fra myrer, det har Profeten givet lov til, og det er da værd at overveje til sommer.

Koranen er IKKE rationel, og kan ikke bøjes så den bliver det, uanset hvad sjove mænd finder på.

mvh Knud

WJ: Jeg prøver fakisk på ikke at lære for meget om Koranen. Sigtet med Koran Bloggen er at beskrive mødet mellem Koranens ord og mit sind, min humor, min moral, mit temperament… Det møde vil jeg gerne have foregår så umiddelbart som muligt. Der er INTET galt med en mere akademisk tilgang til Koranen, opsøge foredrag, studere Koranen gennem mange kilder m.m., men det vil modarbejde mit projekt som er den umiddelbare læsning af Koranen. Intet filter skal komme imellem mit sind og Koranen.

Jeg har et rigtig rigtig rigtig godt link som jeg gerne vil anbefale dig, som handler OM Koranen.

Det drejer sig om et foredrag af en matematikker ved navn Gary Miller som virklig formår at vise hvordan man skal gribe Koranen an på en rationel måde som ALLE kan forholde sig til, hvis du skulle være interesseret.
Det drejer sig faktisk om et foredrag som virklig sætter folks misforståelser på plads om Koranen og som virklig viser hvor frygteligt undervurderet Koranen er både af muslimer og ikke-muslimer, hvis du altså skulle være interesseret.

http://www.gallup.com/press/104209/Who-Speaks-Islam-What-Billion-Muslims-Really-Think.aspx

[Citat William] : “8. GIFTE MÆND GÅR TIL LUDERE, VERSELINIE 24:
‘Derudover er det jer tilladt med jeres formue at tragte efter de kvinder, I vil, som ærbare mænd, uden at begå utugt. For den nydelse i opnår med dem, skal I betale dem deres pligtige beløb!
Dette henviser til Nikah mut’ah, midlertidige ægteskaber, dvs. prostitution. Gud har altså valgt at åbenbare, at der okay for en gift mand at gå til en luder, og det regnes ikke for utugt. Hvis bare Koranen specificerede at Gud var ligeså tolerant overfor kvinder og de gigoloer de måtte begære, så var det blot simpel hedonisme. I stedet er det simpel foragt for ægteskabet, foragt for implikationerne af ens valg af livspartner.”
[citat slut]

Dette er forkert. Verset ovenfor henviser til hvilke grupper af kvinder der er en mand tilladt at gifte sig med, og at han er pligtig til at betale hende MEDGIFT med mindre de to parter aftaler anderledes dig imellem. Manden opfordres til at gifte sig, idet det IKKE er ham tilladt at gå til prostituerede eller på andet vis bedrive utugt, og der fremlægges her retningslinier.

Ad surah 4 om flerkoneri i Islam.

Efter min forståelse: I Islam er det en mand tilladt at have op til fire koner. Der anmærkes, at idet han aldri vil kunne klare at behandle dem alle fuldstændigt ens, noget der er en pligt, vil det kunne være bedre for ham at have kun én. Uanset er man ikke nødt til at have flere koner, det er blot ikke forbudt. Hustruen må samtykke til at der kommer flere koner. Begge parter har ret til skilsmisse hvis de er utilfredse med situationen.

For at illustrere dette: Da Profeten Muhammads datter skulle giftes, fremsatte hun det som et krav overfor sin far, at hun kun ville giftes dersom manden gik med på at hun skulle forblive den eneste kone. Hendes far Muhammad, fred være med ham, og hendes kommende mand accepterede dette, og de blev gift.

In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,
And may Peace and Blessings be upon the Prophet Muhammad Open Letter to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,
Do not contend with people of the Book except in the fairest way .
(The Holy Qur’an, al-Ankabut, 29:46).

Your Holiness, With regards to your lecture at the University of Regensburg in Germany on September 12th 2006, we thought it appropriate, in the spirit of open exchange, to address your use of a debate between the Emperor Manuel II Paleologus and a learned Persian as the starting point for a discourse on the relationship between reason and faith. While we applaud your efforts to oppose the dominance of positivism and materialism in human life, we must point out some errors in the way you mentioned Islam as a counterpoint to the proper use of reason, as well as some mistakes in the assertions you put forward in support of your argument. There is no Compulsion in Religion You mention that according to the experts the verse which begins, There is no compulsion in religion (al-Baqarah 2:256) is from the early period when the Prophet was still powerless and under threat, but this is incorrect. In fact this verse is acknowledged to belong to the period of Quranic revelation corresponding to the political and military ascendance of the young Muslim community. There is no compulsion in religion was not a command to Muslims to remain steadfast in the face of the desire of their oppressors to force them to renounce their faith, but was a reminder to Muslims themselves, once they had attained power, that they could not force anothers heart to believe. There is no compulsion in religion addresses those in a position of strength, not weakness. The earliest commentaries on the Qur’an (such as that of Al-Tabari) make it clear that some Muslims of Medina wanted to force their children to convert from Judaism or Christianity to Islam, and this verse was precisely an answer to them not to try to force their children to convert to Islam. Moroever, Muslims are also guided by such verses as Say: The truth is from your Lord; so whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. (al-Kahf 18:29); and Say: O disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship; Nor worship ye that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion (al-Kafirun: 109:1-6). Gods Transcendence You also say that for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent, a simplification which can be misleading. The Quran states, There is no thing like unto Him (al-Shura 42:11), but it also states, He is the Light of the heavens and the earth (al-Nur 24:35); and, We are closer to him than his jugular vein (Qaf 50:16); and, He is the First, the Last, the Inward, and the Outward (al-Hadid 57:3); and, He is with you wherever you are (al-Hadid 57:4); and, Wheresoever you turn, there is the Face of God (al-Baqarah 2:115). Also, let us recall the saying of the Prophet, which states that God says, When I love him (the worshipper), I am the hearing by which he hears, the sight by which he sees, the hand with which he grasps, and the foot with which he walks. (Sahih al-Bukhari no.6502, Kitab al-Riqaq) In the Islamic spiritual, theological, and philosophical tradition, the thinker you mention, Ibn Hazm (d. 1069 CE), is a worthy but very marginal figure, who belonged to the Zahiri school of jurisprudence which is followed by no one in the Islamic world today. If one is looking for classical formulations of the doctrine of transcendence, much more important to Muslims are figures such as al-Ghazali (d. 1111 CE) and many others who are far more influential and more representative of Islamic belief than Ibn Hazm. You quote an argument that because the emperor is shaped by Greek philosophy the idea that God is not pleased by blood is self-evident to him, to which the Muslim teaching on Gods Transcendence is put forward as a counterexample. To say that for Muslims Gods Will is not bound up in any of our categories is also a simplification which may lead to a misunderstanding. God has many Names in Islam, including the Merciful, the Just, the Seeing, the Hearing, the Knowing, the Loving, and the Gentle. Their utter conviction in Gods Oneness and that There is none like unto Him (al-Ikhlas 112:4) has not led Muslims to deny Gods attribution of these qualities to Himself and to (some of) His creatures, (setting aside for now the notion of categories, a term which requires much clarification in this context). As this concerns His Will, to conclude that Muslims believe in a capricious God who might or might not command us to evil is to forget that God says in the Qur’an, Lo! God enjoins justice and kindness, and giving to kinsfolk, and forbids lewdness and abomination and wickedness. He exhorts you in order that ye may take heed (al-Nahl, 16:90). Equally, it is to forget that God says in the Qurâan that He has prescribed for Himself mercy (al-Anam, 6:12; see also 6:54), and that God says in the Qur’an, My Mercy encompasses everything (al-Araf 7:156). The word for mercy, rahmah, can also be translated as love, kindness, and compassion. From this word rahmah comes the sacred formula Muslims use daily, In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Is it not self-evident that spilling innocent blood goes against mercy and compassion? The Use of Reason The Islamic tradition is rich in its explorations of the nature of human intelligence and its relation to Gods Nature and His Will, including questions of what is self-evident and what is not. However, the dichotomy between reason on one hand and faith on the other does not exist in precisely the same form in Islamic thought. Rather, Muslims have come to terms with the power and limits of human intelligence in their own way, acknowledging a hierarchy of knowledge of which reason is a crucial part. There are two extremes which the Islamic intellectual tradition has generally managed to avoid: one is to make the analytical mind the ultimate arbiter of truth, and the other is to deny the power of human understanding to address ultimate questions. More importantly, in their most mature and mainstream forms the intellectual explorations of Muslims through the ages have maintained a consonance between the truths of the Quranic revelation and the demands of human intelligence, without sacrificing one for the other. God says, We shall show them Our signs in the horizons and in themselves until it is clear to them that it is the truth (Fussilat 41:53). Reason itself is one among the many signs within us, which God invites us to contemplate, and to contemplate with, as a way of knowing the truth. What is Holy War? We would like to point out that holy war is a term that does not exist in Islamic languages. Jihad, it must be emphasized, means struggle, and specifically struggle in the way of God. This struggle may take many forms, including the use of force. Though a jihad may be sacred in the sense of being directed towards a sacred ideal, it is not necessarily a war. Moreover, it is noteworthy that Manuel II Paleologus says that violence goes against Gods nature, since Christ himself used violence against the money-changers in the temple, and said Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword… (Matthew 10:34-36). When God drowned Pharaoh, was He going against His own Nature? Perhaps the emperor meant to say that cruelty, brutality, and aggression are against Gods Will, in which case the classical and traditional law of jihad in Islam would bear him out completely. You say that naturally the emperor knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Quran, concerning holy war. However, as we pointed out above concerning There is no compulsion in religion, the aforementioned instructions were not later at all. Moreover, the emperors statements about violent conversion show that he did not know what those instructions are and have always been. The authoritative and traditional Islamic rules of war can be summarized in the following principles:

1. Non-combatants are not permitted or legitimate targets. This was emphasized explicitly time and again by the Prophet, his Companions, and by the learned tradition since then.

2. Religious belief alone does not make anyone the object of attack. The original Muslim community was fighting against pagans who had also expelled them from their homes, persecuted, tortured, and murdered them. Thereafter, the Islamic conquests were political in nature.

3. Muslims can and should live peacefully with their neighbors. And if they incline to peace, do thou incline to it; and put thy trust in God (al-Anfal 8:61). However, this does not exclude legitimate self-defense and maintenance of sovereignty.

Muslims are just as bound to obey these rules as they are to refrain from theft and adultery. If a religion regulates war and describes circumstances where it is necessary and just, that does not make that religion war-like, anymore than regulating sexuality makes a religion prurient. If some have disregarded a long and well-established tradition in favor of utopian dreams where the end justifies the means, they have done so of their own accord and without the sanction of God, His Prophet, or the learned tradition. God says in the Holy Quran: Let not hatred of any people seduce you into being unjust. Be just, that is nearer to piety (al-Maidah 5:8). In this context we must state that the murder on September 17th of an innocent Catholic nun in Somalia and any other similar acts of wanton individual violence in reaction to your lecture at the University of Regensburg, is completely un-Islamic, and we totally condemn such acts. Forced Conversion The notion that Muslims are commanded to spread their faith by the sword or that Islam in fact was largely spread by the sword does not hold up to scrutiny. Indeed, as a political entity Islam spread partly as a result of conquest, but the greater part of its expansion came as a result of preaching and missionary activity. Islamic teaching did not prescribe that the conquered populations be forced or coerced into converting. Indeed, many of the first areas conquered by the Muslims remained predominantly non-Muslim for centuries. Had Muslims desired to convert all others by force, there would not be a single church or synagogue left anywhere in the Islamic world. The command There is no compulsion in religion means now what it meant then. The mere fact of a person being non-Muslim has never been a legitimate casus belli in Islamic law or belief. As with the rules of war, history shows that some Muslims have violated Islamic tenets concerning forced conversion and the treatment of other religious communities, but history also shows that these are by far the exception which proves the rule. We emphatically agree that forcing others to believe if such a thing be truly possible at allis not pleasing to God and that God is not pleased by blood. Indeed, we believe, and Muslims have always believed, that Whoso slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul slain, nor for corruption done in the land, it shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether (al-Maidah 5:32). Something New? You mention the emperors assertion that anything new brought by the Prophet was evil and inhuman, such as his alleged command to spread by the sword the faith he preached. What the emperor failed to realize aside from the fact (as mentioned above) that no such command has ever existed in Islam is that the Prophet never claimed to be bringing anything fundamentally new. God says in the Holy Quran, Naught is said to thee (Muhammad) but what already was said to the Messengers before thee (Fussilat 41:43), and, Say (Muhammad): I am no new thing among the messengers (of God), nor know I what will be done with me or with you. I do but follow that what is Revealed to me, and I am but a plain warner (al-Ahqaf, 46:9). Thus faith in the One God is not the property of any one religious community. According to Islamic belief, all the true prophets preached the same truth to different peoples at different times. The laws may be different, but the truth is unchanging. The Experts You refer at one point non-specifically to the experts (on Islam) and also actually cites two Catholic scholars by name, Professor (Adel) Theodore Khoury and (Associate Professor) Roger Arnaldez. It suffices here to say that whilst many Muslims consider that there are sympathetic non-Muslims and Catholics who could truly be considered experts on Islam, Muslims have not to our knowledge endorsed the experts you referred to, or recognized them as representing Muslims or their views. On September 25th 2006 you reiterated your important statement in Cologne on August 20th 2005 that, Inter-religious and inter-cultural dialogue between Christians and Muslims cannot be reduced to an optional extra. It is, in fact, a vital necessity, on which in large measure our future depends. Whilst we fully concur with you, it seems to us that a great part of the object of inter-religious dialogue is to strive to listen to and consider the actual voices of those we are dialoguing with, and not merely those of our own persuasion.
* * *
Christianity and Islam Christianity and Islam are the largest and second largest religions in the world and in history. Christians and Muslims reportedly make up over a third and over a fifth of humanity respectively. Together they make up more than 55% of the worlds population, making the relationship between these two religious communities the most important factor in contributing to meaningful peace around the world. As the leader of over a billion Catholics and moral example for many others around the globe, yours is arguably the single most influential voice in continuing to move this relationship forward in the direction of mutual understanding. We share your desire for frank and sincere dialogue, and recognize its importance in an increasingly interconnected world. Upon this sincere and frank dialogue we hope to continue to build peaceful and friendly relationships based upon mutual respect, justice, and what is common in essence in our shared Abrahamic tradition, particularly the two greatest commandments in Mark 12:29-31 (and, in varying form, in Matthew 22:37-40),that, the Lord our God is One Lord; / And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy understanding, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. / And the second commandment is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Muslims thus appreciate the following words from the Second Vatican Council: The church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has also spoken to humanity. They endeavor to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet; his virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting. (Nostra Aetate, 28 October 1965)
And equally the words of the late Pope John Paul II, for whom many Muslims had great regard and esteem:
We Christians joyfully recognize the religious values we have in common with Islam. Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection(Insegnamenti, VIII/2, [1985], p. 497, quoted during a general audience on May 5, 1999).
Muslims also appreciated your unprecedented personal expression of sorrow, and your clarification and assurance (on the 17th of September) that your quote does not reflect your own personal opinion, as well as the Cardinal Secretary of State Tarcisio Bertoneâs affirmation (on the 16th of September) of the conciliar document Nostra Aetate. Finally, Muslims appreciated that (on September 25th) in front of an assembled group of ambassadors from Muslim countries you expressed total and profound respect for all Muslims. We hope that we will all avoid the mistakes of the past and live together in the future in peace, mutual acceptance and respect.
And all praise belongs to God, and there is neither power nor strength except through God.آ©
2006

Signed:
(in alphabetical order)
H.E. Allamah Abd Allah bin Mahfuz bin Bayyah,
Professor, King Abd Al-Aziz University, Saudi Arabia
Former Vice President; Minister of Justice; Minister of Education and Minister of Religious Affairs, Mauritania Professor Dr. Allamah Muhammad Sa‘id Ramadan Bouti,
Dean of Department of Religion, University of Damascus, Syria H.E. Professor Dr. Mustafa أ‡agrؤ±cؤ±,
Grand Mufti of Istanbul H.E. Shaykh Professor Dr. Mustafa Ceric,
Grand Mufti and Head of Ulema of Bosnia and Herzegovina H.E. Shaykh Ravil Gainutdin,
Grand Mufti of Russia H.E. Shaykh Nedإ¾ad Grabus,
Grand Mufti of Slovenia Shaykh Al-Habib Ali Mashhour bin Muhammad bin Salim bin Hafeez,
Imam of the Tarim Mosque and Head of Fatwa Council, Tarim, Yemen Shaykh Al-Habib Umar bin Muhammad bin Salim bin Hafeez,
Dean, Dar Al-Mustafa, Tarim, Yemen Professor Dr. Farouq Hamadah,
Professor of the Sciences of Tradition, Mohammad V University, Morocco Shaykh Hamza Yusuf Hanson,
Founder and Director, Zaytuna Institute, CA, USA H.E. Shaykh Dr. Ahmad Badr Al-Din Hassoun,
Grand Mufti of the Republic of Syria Dr. Shaykh Izz Al-Din Ibrahim,
Advisor for Cultural Affairs, Prime Ministry, United Arab Emirates H.E. Professor Dr. Omar Jah,
Secretary of the Muslim Scholars Council, Gambia
Professor of Islamic Civilization and Thought, University of Gambia Shaykh Al-Habib Ali Zain Al-Abideen Al-Jifri,
Founder and Director, Taba Institute, United Arab Emirates H.E. Shaykh Professor Dr. Ali Jumu‘ah,
Grand Mufti of the Republic of Egypt Professor Dr. Abla Mohammed Kahlawi,
Dean of Islamic and Arabic Studies, Al-Azhar University (Women’s College), Egypt Professor Dr. Mohammad Hashim Kamali,
Dean, International Institute of Islamic Thought and Civilization (ISTAC), Malaysia
Professor of Islamic Law and Jurisprudence, International Islamic University, Malaysia Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller,
Shaykh in the Shadhili Order and Senior Fellow of Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought (Jordan), U.S.A. H.E. Shaykh Ahmad Al-Khalili,
Grand Mufti of the Sultanate of Oman Shaykh Dr. Ahmad Kubaisi,
Founder of the Ulema Organization, Iraq Allamah Shaykh Muhammad bin Muhammad Al-Mansouri,
High Authority (Marja’) of Zeidi Muslims, Yemen Shaykh Abu Bakr Ahmad Al-Milibari,
Secretary-General of the Ahl Al-Sunna Association, India H.E. Dr. Moulay Abd Al-Kabir Al-Alawi Al-Mudghari,
Director-General of the Bayt Mal Al-Qods Al-Sharif Agency, Former Minister of Religious Affairs, Morocco
H.E. Shaykh Ahmad Hasyim Muzadi, General Chairman of the Nahdat al-Ulema, Indonesia
H.E. Professor Dr. Seyyed Hossein Nasr,
University Professor of Islamic Studies, George Washington University, Washington D.C, USA H.E. Shaykh Sevki Omerbasic,
Grand Mufti of Croatia H.E. Dr. Mohammad Abd Al-Ghaffar Al-Sharif,
Secretary-General of the Ministry of Religious Affairs, Kuwait Dr. Muhammad Alwani Al-Sharif,
Head of the European Academy of Islamic Culture and Sciences, Brussels, Belgium Shaykh M. Iqbal Sullam,
Vice General-Secretary, Nahdat al-Ulema, Indonesia Shaykh Dr. Tariq Sweidan,
Director-General of the Risalah Satellite Channel Professor Dr. H.R.H. Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad bin Talal,
Chairman of the Board of the Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Jordan H.E. Ayotollah Muhammad Ali Taskhiri,
Secretary General of the World Assembly for Proximity of Islamic Schools of Thoughts (WAPIST), Iran H.E. Shaykh Naim Trnava,
Grand Mufti of Kosovo H.E. Dr. Abd Al-Aziz Uthman Al-Tweijri,
Director-General of the Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (ISESCO), Morocco H.H. Justice Mufti Muhammad Taqi Uthmani,
Vice President, Dar Al-Ulum, Karachi, Pakistan H.E. Shaykh Muhammad Al-Sadiq Muhammad Yusuf,
Grand Mufti of Uzbekistan Shaykh Abd Al-Hakim Murad Winter,
Shaykh Zayed Lecturer in Islamic Studies, Divinity School, University of Cambridge, U.K.
Director of the Muslim Academic Trust, U.K. H.E. Shaykh Muamer Zukorlic
Mufti of Sanjak, Bosnia